Tag Archives: Disestablishment

80% of Irish people want total separation of church and state, says We The Citizens

by Michael Nugent on December 12, 2011

More than eight in every ten Irish people want the church and state to be totally separate, 65% strongly agree that this should happen, and less than three in ten have quite a lot or a great deal of confidence in religious groups.

That’s according to a survey of 1,242 people conducted in June for We The Citizens, who today launched a report calling for a national Citizens’ Assembly to give ordinary Irish people a structured direct say in our political decisions.

The report also found strong support for secular education:
*  Seven in every ten Irish people want religious education to focus on teaching students about different religions rather than promoting one set of religious beliefs. And less than two in every ten disagree that this should happen.
* 46% would welcome most primary and secondary schools being taken out of church control, compared to just 36% against this. Even in Connacht/Ulster, where people were less supportive, more were still in favour than against.
* And seven in every ten want the Irish education system to encourage more creativity and independent thought.

The report describes how We The Citizens organised a series of regional events and independent surveys, followed by a pilot CItizens’ Assembly, in which a representative group of citizens was randomly chosen, then given expert information and the opportunity to deliberate on particular policy issues.

It covers opinions on a wide range of issues, including proposals on defect reduction, participation rates of women and young people in politics, the need for civic and social education, and the need for openness, transparency and accountability in government.

It concludes that an ongoing Citizens’ Assembly mechanism would strengthen our democracy by helping to restore trust in the democratic system of government. You can read the full report on the We The Citizens website.

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Church and humanists clash over Bishops in parliament

The conflicting views of the Church of England and the British Humanist Association (BHA) were clear at yesterday’s evidence session on Bishops sitting in the House of Lords, the ‘Lords Spiritual’. The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, and Andrew Copson, BHA Chief Executive, were both invited to give evidence to the parliamentary Joint Committee looking at the draft House of Lords Reform Bill on Monday 28 November. The BHA had, last month, submitted detailed written evidence to the Committee opposing and criticising the government’s proposals on the Bishops (http://www.humanism.org.uk/_uploads/documents/submission-to-the-joint-committee-on-the-draft-house-of-lords-reform-bill-bha-final.pdf).

In his written submission to the Joint Committee, Dr Williams described why he supports having Church of England Bishops in the House of Lords as of right and why the appointments process should also have regard to increasing the presence of leaders of other denominations and faiths (http://www.churchofengland.org/media-centre/news/2011/11/archbishops-question-case-for-elected-house-of-lords.aspx). The UK is the only democracy in the world to have reserved seats for clerics in its parliament, and the BHA has been campaigning for many years to have abolished this outdated, undemocratic, unequal and unfair tradition which, if retained, would seriously undermine the validity of any reform of the House of Lords.
Read more…

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U.K.: Prayers during Council meetings are unlawful – NSS before the High Court

The National Secular Society are concerned that many — maybe even the majority — of local councils in the U.K. start their meetings with Christian prayers. The NSS thinks it is inappropriate that non-believers and those of other religions taking part in local democracy are put in the difficult and potentially embarrassing position of having to decide whether to participate or pointedly not participate.
NSS was advised by their lawyers that the practice of a local authority saying prayers during meetings is likely to be unlawful. NSS therefore initiated a judicial review and had it’s day in court on Friday (2 December 2011): about five hours of intense legal activity.

The case was presided over by the Judge in charge of the Administrative Court, Mr Justice Ouseley, in one of the prestige main courts.

The National Secular Society’s challenge to prayers in local council meetings was heard in the High Court on Friday 2 December.
We were represented by David Wolfe of Matrix Chambers with defendants Bideford Town Council being represented by James Dingemans QC, who acted (ultimately without success) for the Islington registrar who refused to perform civil partnership ceremonies.
David Wolfe set out our case for around two hours, with occasional interventions from Mr Justice Ouseley. Mr Wolfe put forward our three main grounds of claim that the Council’s practice of conducting prayers at the beginning of council meetings is unlawful in that:
(1) it is unjustified (and thus unlawful) indirect discrimination against persons of no religion; and
(2) it is incompatible with Articles 9 and 14 ECHR (freedom of religion/conscience and non-discrimination) and/or
(3) it is ultra vires (outside the powers of) the Council. He argued each point in turn. More…

For background information and earlier stories on this topic, see: http://www.secularism.org.uk/council-prayers.html

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